Ref: MAT2_B07.doc

<<<go back to Paper Table of contents page<<

Part B - 7

7.         Women in War and Gender issues before and after

Excerpts & Historical Context: Parallel Lives in perspective

 

Women in Business

WDK:              But it was always common for women to have small businesses.  Even when I was a kid on the farm, women went and sold the cream, they sold the eggs.  A lot of farms kept working on the egg money that the women made.  And they just sort of forgot that you know.  And it was the same during the war.  How many women were working during the war.  And after their husbands came home they stopped working.  But as far back as I remember -- it was the same, they made it seem like women started working up in the '50s or the '60s. And it is not so.  There were women schoolteachers as far back as I can remember.  –Wanda Keefe

Replace Men During War

WDK:              Now, when I worked for Look Magazine, the office manager there was a woman.  She was like head of the payroll department.  And I was her assistant.  She got the job because the man who had the job went into the service.  And then she got the job.  And a lot of these women that had these jobs, they gave them up when their husbands came home.  And their boyfriends.  Because the men needed jobs badly then.  And the women were needed to raise the children again, you know.

 –Wanda Keefe

Interview Abbreviations:   JJK  =  Jack [John Joseph] Keefe;       WDK  =  Wanda Davis Keefe;      AKK  =  Adhiratha Kevin Keefe

 

Table of Contents

 

7.      Women in War and Gender issues before and after........................................................... 1

Percent of the Workforce...................................................................................................................................... 1

Stereotype Jobs?................................................................................................................................................... 1

Recruitment for Duration of War.......................................................................................................................... 2

Children work less – Women work more.............................................................................................................. 2

Post War Women with Work & Life Experience............................................................................................... 2

13         Dressmaking & Business lessons  with Marie Santini............................................................................ 3

14         Sewing Club, Circle & friends helping..................................................................................................... 3

Business Evolved out of what doing informally.................................................................................................... 4

With Some Customers Pricing was a challenge...................................................................................................... 4

Juggling Kids and Moterhood with Business........................................................................................................ 4

War changed type of jobs available................................................................................................................... 5

Some Factory work was new................................................................................................................................ 6

 

Many  changes associated with War had been underway long before the War began. The battle for rights for women and civil rights are two examples. The War experience helped accelerate the process but it did not alone produce the changes [B07-N01].  Wanda strongly stated that many things had been done before World War II.                   

Percent of the Workforce

In order to attend to family responsibilities, women enter and leave the labor force. In 1944 on average 37 % adult women had employment outside the home during a given week. 48 % of all women worked at some point during the year

 

Stereotype Jobs?

Women were present in defense industries, as welders and riveters, occupations previously reserved for men. But old stereotypes/constraints persisted and women were mostly hired as helpers, record keepers and semi skilled laborers. Jeffries notes that riveters & welders were more the ceiling rather than the norm. As Wanda notes in her interview, women had already been working before the war and pre war trends for occupations were followed. However the labor force for office work increased from 1/5th to 1/4th female. Between 1940 & 1950 white collar work by women increased 53%, while overall women working only increased 13%. Women, who did work, later reported that they gained self confidence & knowledge that they would carry for the rest of their lives. [B07-N02]

 

  Recruitment for Duration of War

Recruitment drives had stressed that the work was for the duration of the War. Some Women were asked in a survey to chose an ideal live in 1942.  3/4 of respondents said housewife, 7% said single with career, 19% said married with career. The focus on family was reflected by the rising marriage and birth rates during and after the war in the USA, Family size grew in 1940's from 2 to 3 children. [B07-N03] Wanda was one of  those who left work after the birth of her first child. She and Jack had nine children.

 

Children work less – Women work more

            During the 20th century there was a growing preference for wives rather than children supplementing the family income.            This awareness of the importance of protecting children from the early workplace demands and contributed to acceptance for women in the workplace.

Wanda tells of helping to pay her family's debt at hospital during first job. Jack had hesitated to accept one child's paper route money to pay for appliances, but was supportive of his wife Wanda having her own business.         

During the war the dynamics of home and family sometimes changed especially when husbands were away. The household became a place for greater autonomy for woman as they coped with difficulties. [B07-N04] This greater experience and confidence of married women may have contributed to a wider acceptance of married men traveling more as part of their work after the war. Culturally, there now were more role models, community support systems and shared stories of woman coping on their own.              

Post War Women Work & Life Experience

 

Wanda mentioned going into business with a friend while raising children after the War and the experience they previously had.

Dressmaking & Business lessons  with Marie Santini

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 13]

AKK:               We were discussing your different educational experiences, work experience with the hospital, then in Whitehorse, and Look Magazine. We didn't discuss  when you decided to go into business with Marie [Santini –Wanda’s Friend and Neighbor].  I don't think we mentioned that --

WDK:              We hadn't gone up that far.

AKK:               How old were you at that time?  How many kids had you had by then?

WDK:              When we moved to Seaford on to Alan drive, was when I first met Marie.

JJK:                 1951.[had 4 children by then]

WDK:              Right.  And I had already been making clothes for --.

AKK:               I remember you made the habits for the nuns too?

WDK:              Right.  That was when I was, still in Freeport I guess, and Nell and John lived next to me.

AKK:               I thought that was for the nuns in Merrick?

WDK:              They were in Merrick, right, right. So it must have been -- just after we moved too.  Because they moved to Merrick first.  And we moved to Seaford.

AKK:               Had Marie done that sort of work before?

WDK:              Marie had worked in doll factories, dressing dolls.  You know, different things like that.  So we both sort of [had experience]--

 

Wanda explains how her business grew out of an informal club she had with other women in her neighborhood.

Sewing Club, Circle & friends helping

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 14]

AKK:               You had a sewing club of some sort. Didn't you meet once a week?

WDK:              I had that in Freeport.  I started that in Freeport and I had helped teach people how to sew. I taught Nell, really, a lot of how to sew.  We made slipcovers for her house.  And we made slipcovers at my house.  But, I helped to do all of that, and taught her how.  And I can't remember what year Marie and I went into --

AKK:               Wasn't there something on Alan drive in Seaford though too, like sewing Circle? People would come around --?

WDK:              0h, they still came.  They still came, the ones from Freeport as well.

AKK:               Oh, they would drive to get there?

WDK:              Oh, yeah, yeah but others joined us on Alan drive.

AKK:               Right, but, was it like once a week?

WDK:              Yeah once a week.  And if people wanted to bring their mending, sew buttons on, whenever, you know -- it was a gossip session.  It was a chance to get out.  And we helped teach other with what we're doing.  Many drapes for our houses.  And all that.  And then it was a few years later, I don't remember what year was that Marie and I decided to go into (business).  Because I was making dresses for people.  I had done it for nothing, you know, for a long time and then people wanted to pay me for it.  So I did it for quite a few friends in Merrick that I knew there.   

 

Wanda eventually had to stop the business when her sixth Child was born. She comments on the community support she received for her business from friends as well as from Jack and Al Santini [her partner’s husband].

 

Business Evolved out of what doing informally

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 14]

WDK:              And it just so evolved. And then Marie and I decided to go in together.  And what we did first was we did aprons. We made aprons and then toaster covers, and oven mitts and all these things to match.  And people would come to what we would have, an apron party. And people would come and order what they would like. And how they would like it made.  And we did that.  Then we got into making more and more clothes.  And I designed clothes for people.  And Marie and I both sewed.  She was a wonderful seamstress too. And when George [Wanda’s 6th child] was born was when I quit.  That was my sixth.  And I just thought it was too much.  Because I was having to hire somebody to help take care of the kids.  And Marie and Al insisted that they should pay for half of that.  Because we were doing it together.  We were working together.  And you know, I had all the kids. She had two.  Then another reason too, then as I said, I had George and I said this is it.  It is just too much.  So Marie and Al --

AKK:               So how long was it that you did it?

WDK:              I don't even remember.  Maybe Marie (will remember)

AKK:               So Al was very supportive?

WDK:              0h yeah.  So was your father.  I mean, they thought that was great.  So, a lot of our friends were too.  

 

Wanda shared some of her business experiences and the skills she needed to develop. One difficult lesson was the importance of being very clear about pricing for the work performed.

 

With Some Customers Pricing was a challenge

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 14]

WDK:              But we also found, some of the people, no matter how little you gave it to them for, it was too much.

AKK:               But they would only decide that after they had already taken it? And they didn't want to pay?

WDK:              "You mean it is that much?"  So I learned to say --. They would come with material that they wanted made into a suit or they wanted made into a skirt and all this. And I would say take it to the tailor and see how much he charges to do it. But lots of time, a lot of things we did was just taking up hems on skirts and things like that.  Repair work and a lot of that.  But it was very nice.

AKK:               But if it was something new, he tried to give them a sense first of what it would cost.

WDK:              We learned that.  We didn't learn that accidentally.  We just found out they thought, "you know, how much she charged me for this?"  And it would be like hours and hours of work.  And they just --

AKK:               They didn't count that?

 

Wand experienced competing pressures of raising children and meeting deadlines for her business.

Juggling Kids and Motherhood with Business

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 14]

WDK:              No. So it can get pretty hairy too.  When you have to have something finished at a certain time and you are up half the night with the kids.  And you are trying to finish the suit.  I remember especially one plaid suit, with the pleated skirt and the pockets and everything on it. We charged her $20 to make it.  And the tailors would have charged her even in those times, you know, $50 to $60 at least. And she came back and she said to us that my husband thinks it was too much.  Just too expensive.

AKK:               So was she going to bring it back or --?

WDK:              No.

AKK:               You decided you didn’t need that business anymore though --

WDK:              No, no.  Well -- she was a good friend -- who knows, so you just sort of --

AKK:               You say, well, I'm sorry and tell her how many hours it took to make it.

WDK:              So when I quit and Marie did quite a bit on her own, but then she started working with______, who we bought the freezer from.

 

Wand felt that the small business for women was not such a unique idea att he time.

Small Businesses  for women.

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 15]

AKK:               Was it that common then for women to have businesses ?

WDK:              0h yeah, oh yeah.

AKK:               Small businesses?

WDK:              Oh yes.  There were always you know, dressmakers and people that did that.  But it was always common for women to have small businesses.  Even when I was a kid on the farm, women went and sold the cream, they sold the eggs.  A lot of farms kept working on the egg money that the women made.  And they just sort of forgot that you know.  And it was the same during the war.  How many women were working during the war.  And after their husbands came home they stopped working.  But as far back as I remember -- it was the same, they made it seem like women started working up in the '50s or the '60s. And it is not so.  There were women schoolteachers as far back as I can remember.

JJK:                 0h yeah sure.

 

 

War changed type of jobs available

Jack and Wanda shared their perceptions of work opportunities for women and how the type of jobs available for women changed during WWII.

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 15]

AKK:               But during the war, it changed the type of fields they could get in? Like Education was always seen as - like "normal schools" are for women.  And dressmaking maybe was seen as woman could do that.  But didn't --?

WDK:              Yeah, and one time all the big designers were women.  Now who are all the big designers?  Are men.  And I think they --

JJK:                 All the teachers were women when I was growing up.

WDK:              Well --

AKK:               There were quite a few men teachers?

WDK:              There were men teachers in my school.  Yeah.

JJK:                 There were many teachers, but the women were in the majority especially in the grammar school.  In high school you had a mix.  Male and female.

WDK:              In the lower grades.  Well, even in high school, in Edmonton I had a mix.  I had several male teachers for different subjects. But it amazes me now, some of the things I read and see.  And I say, look back before you to write these things.  But back in history and you can see.

  Some Factory work was new

[excerpt below, for full see jw00se30.rft para 15]

AKK:               But what type of work could women get that was different during the war that they couldn't before?

WDK:              In the factories.

AKK:               Mostly factory work

WDK:              Right, right.  And in the munitions factories.  Now my cousin Shirley, worked in Boeing all those years, making planes.

AKK:               And did other industries which used to hire men only, because of the men were going away, also opened up to women?

WDK:              Oh, yeah.  Oh yeah.  In the offices even.  Now, when I worked for Look Magazine, the office manager there was a woman.  She was like head of the payroll department.  And I was her assistant.  She got the job because the man who had the job went into the service.  And then she got the job.  And a lot of these women that had these jobs, they gave them up when their husbands came home.  And their boyfriends.  Because the men needed jobs badly then.  And the women were needed to raise the children again, you know. 

AKK:               You think it was a fairly common experience of many people.  It just changed. Because of the war, because of the emergency?.  The attitude?  Adjusting --

WDK:              Yeah 

 

 

End Notes – B07

 

End Note [EN] Part-Sect-Note

Author

Source & Link to Bibliography in Part G

Abbreviated reference to Source

Page

B07-N01

Jeffries, John W.. 

Wartime in America: The World War II Home Front

WA

Pp 007

B07-N02

Jeffries, John W.. 

Wartime in America: The World War II Home Front

WA

Pp 095, 096

B07-N03

Jeffries, John W.. 

Wartime in America: The World War II Home Front

WA

Pp 094, 101, 102

B07-N04

Jeffries, John W.. 

Wartime in America: The World War II Home Front

WA

Pp 105