C01.b UN Edited 18 Mar 2000 interview with Jack Keefe

SEYS 767.3 Oral History in the Classroom
[AKA Teaching Oral History]		Adhiratha Kevin Keefe
Professor David Gerwin 318 Klapper		718-380-8499
718-997-5159		Fax: 718-380-1878
dgerwin@qcunix1.qc.edu		adhiratha@aol.com
Razran Hall room 224, Tuesday 6:30-9:20 PM; E6T3B

UN Edited 18 Mar 2000 interview with Jack Keefe

Table of Contents

Paragraph Subject Page

1 -62 Adlai Stevenson Campaign [1952] pp.1-5

- Eisenhower 1952 & 1956

- Kennedy 1960

- Mrs. Roosevelt's support

- Hope to "Stampede the Convention"

- Harry Truman - contentious nomination for VP

- - Erie Pennsylvania - A Wish for Prayers

- Stevenson

- as US Representative at the UN

- Campaign organization

- 1956 attempt watching on TV

- James Michael Curley & Foster Fericulo?

- Dewey & Truman TV for 1948 election after midnight surprise

- Switching parties & other votes

- Johnson, Humphery, McGovern,

63__-109___ Nelson Rockefeller campaign [1964] pp. 6_- 10

- Why support Rockefeller?

- How invited to join the team

- Bus Stop Lunch

- Oregon News Media Prediction, one minute after polls close

- Small Planes and Campaign Literature

- Plan to Meet with Bishops and Cancellations

- Corporals Guard in San Diego - The long line in Disney Land

- Campaigning on Buses & Trains

- Personal approach of Nelson to Disabled Spanish Speaking Boy

- Loyola College

- All set up & College President 's decision to cancel the event

- Threats from Barry Goldwater's & Loyola's financial backers

- Loyola fund-raiser resignation

- A new College President 1966 provides some background

- Appreciation from Nelson Rockefeller & a hug

- Losing by 50,000 votes in California Primary [winner take all]

- Leading up to the Convention in California - no dominos

110-141 Jacob Javits re-election Campaign [1968] pp10-12

- A call from the blue

- An race between liberals, Paul O'Dwyer 1968

- Final opponents Holtsman and D'Amato

Setting up meetings

- Tom Keefe - What a Cop!

- National Rifle Association & Javits Moxie

- Smooth campaign, various constituencies, people listened

1. AK: The last time we spoke I believe it was the 4th of March, and we touched upon the campaign with Adlai Stevenson. I think I asked you questions bout how you got involved. You saw an ad and you went there. I wondered if there was anything further about that time that you remembered since we spoke. [For background note on Adlai E(wing) Stevenson see http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/4/0,5716,71474+1,00.html]

2. JK: Not really, what I just remember is how his staff admired him. They had a great deal of admiration for him as a man and also as a politician and a statesman. They thought that if he did lose in 1952 that he would still be on the political horizon in the days ahead. And he would eventually become president. Well he got the nomination again in 1956 but he ran against the very popular Eisenhower and he was beaten. In 1960 the Kennedy's were too well organized to stop their Juggernaut. But Mrs. Roosevelt was very much for Adlai Stevenson. She thought for a while he might be able to stampede the convention and take away the Kennedy votes. But it didn't work out that way.

3. AK: Was there some feeling that maybe he went too soon? That if he had waited till 1960 or he would be too old then?

4. JK: The problem is if he waited to 1960 the Kennedy's weren't going to wait till 1964. And they were well organized, they had the money. They had lots of money. They were terrifically well organized and Adlai Stevenson just didn't make it. He didn't make a stab at getting the nomination. They were just hoping that maybe they could stampede the convention.

5. AK: What does that mean to "stamped the convention."

6. JK: Actually you go in and you have all your people there and they yell and scream. They tell the story, I think it was 1940 and Roosevelt was running for the third time. And I think it was in Chicago and at the time there was a little bit of resentment of him running for the third time. And some of the politicians were out to stop him -- but most of the bosses were for Roosevelt again you know. And it was in Chicago under the Democratic Party - they were running it. I'm not sure weather or not it was one of the Daily's who was the mayor a that time I don't recall. But in any event they had a guy down in he lower bowels of the arena and he had a public address system and all of sudden you would have this voice come booming our. "We want Roosevelt, We want Roosevelt". And something like that would happen. Of course he had the nomination in his hind pocket anyway. There was nobody else on the Horizon who seemed capable of becoming pre4sident. Plus the fact that the War in Europe was on and People felt they wanted somebody in there with experience. They didn't want to gamble - that is how he got it. And then of course in 1944 the democrats had nobody else to offer except Roosevelt. Roosevelt was a dying man then. It is generally admitted since that time. He was dying and there was a great deal of aggravation. People wanted to make sure they got their own party in for Vice President. They thought the Vice president was going to be the nest President. Of which he was.

7. AK: So the Vice presidency was more contentious than the presidency.

8. JK: Yeah. There was talk of Harry Truman. And there was talk about Wallace and there was talk about Jimmy Burns And so forth. But Harry Truman had a very astute guy, by the name of-- I forget his right name. He was an Irish politician from Missouri and he pushed Truman for all he was worth and Truman got the nomination. He was reluctant to take it. He had promised to back another guy. I think it was Jimmy Burns. But he got the nomination. Of course .he eventually became president. And he was great President.

9. AK: : How long did he serve.

10. JK: Truman, I think it was about the 12th of April. 1944, that he was inducted. Sworn in as the President and he served until 1953. So he ran again in 1948. And that was a terrifically big upset. For Tom Dewey and the republicans. They figured that the war was over and these guys have been in for 16 years and we will knock them off. There won't be any problem at all. But they over looked the fact that things were going pretty good. We had won the war. And Truman put on a terrific campaign. I talked to Priest out in Erie Pennsylvania. A Monsignor Watson, he later became the Bishop of Erie. And he loved Harry Truman. He just loved him; Things were different in those days. Harry came out and he went by train and he just talked and talked to millions of people I guess. And Father was telling me that he went out to see him when he talked in Erie. Father was in charge of the Catholic youth organization, so all the police knew him. He was right in the Front row when the President was talking. So, we used to have meetings with him each Saturday morning and we would talk politics and all that stuff. We said to him what was it like? And he said: Jack, it was great. I loved Harry Truman. And he came out, there I was in the front Row. And I was saying: "you tell them Mr. President, you tell them". And when it was all over I got so excited that I ran up to the Train. And jumped up - the cops all knew me and they saw the roman collar; things were different in those days, I grabbed his hand and shock it and I said "MR. President you are gonna win and you are going to win big". And he looked at me and he said: "You are dam right father - but let's have some prayers." [chuckle] He was quite a guy.

11. AK: : This was in? And the person telling the story?

12. JK: In 1948 and the person telling the story was Monsignor Watson.

13. AK: and he was still there when you were there?

14. JK: I was there in 1958. So this was about 6 years later, no ten years later

15. AK: : Truman then theoretically could have run again. Even though he had served part of the term

16. JK: He could have run again. Let's see the amendment was set up that a man could only run twice. But he had not run, and he was still eligible for it. But he figured he had pretty near eight years. He figured he had done his job. He backed Adlai Stevenson very strongly. Adlai was reluctant to run in 1952. He was Governor of Illinois. He just didn't want to. But they kept after him, the politicians. And finally he accepted the nomination. There was a senator from Tennessee - whose name I don't recall. And he had won a couple of the primaries and nobody wanted him. So they prevailed upon Adlai Stevenson. He was a good man. He was a real intellectual. He used to write all his own speeches. Other guys would have somebody else do it.

17. AK: : I remember that picture of the hole in his shoe [campaign photo - And with foot up showing he needed a new sole]

18. .JK: Oh yeah. He came from a wealthy family. They had farm out in Libertyville. Ill. When I used to visit the Smith's out there in McHenry, they drove me over there one day to see.

19. AK: :Was he still living there then?

20. JK: :He was then. He died shortly after Kennedy took office. It think. He was -

21. AK: He stayed on for Johnson. He was representative to the UN. Then they had him lying about Vietnam and some people say that is what got to him - and other things.

22. JK: : Was it that or Cuba? It was Cuba on the installation of the armaments so forth and The Russians. He said the Russians had lied or something like that.

23. AK: We should check on that both of us.

24. JK: I don't think he had anything to do with Vietnam.

25. AK: I thought in the Build up or something.

26. J.K: Lets see, I thought he died shortly after Kennedy took office. I could be wrong.

27. AK: I thought Goldberg was Ambassador under Kennedy and Stevenson came under Johnson.

28. J.K: Well lets see. [referring to Time almanac 2000 with information Please]

29. J.K. Adlai Stevenson died in 1965. So that would be Johnson. I thought he died overseas. It says Los Angles.

30. AK: He was a presidential candidate and they just say he was a statesman? Just a Brief Bio?

31. J.K; He was our UN representative [for background note on Stevenson UN role see http://library.thinkquest.org/11046/people/a_stevenson.html - Office: Ambassador to the United Nations, Age: 62, Time in Office: 1961-1965, Born: 1900, Died: 1965]

32. AK: One of the things you mentioned to me last time that I thought was interesting, you found them in 1956 quite well organized. In that Stevenson would give a talk somewhere n Manhattan. And by the end of that night - they didn't have a fax machine.

33. JK: : yeah they would rush it right back to us and we would run it off on the machines and then we would give it out to the press. Of course it would be usually late at night and his train would be getting ready to go to leave for the next place/city and we would have all the copies down there. And all we had, what did they call them?--

34. AK: Gestetner or mimeograph machine? Or the blue ink paper things - the ditto machine?

35. JK: Right - right. With lots of ink [laugh]

36. AK: and they would type them up and scrape of the back of [stencil] for mistakes.

37. JK: Yeah then we would put them on the barrel and run them off/. Gee what a difference. Now you want some copies you just go out and run some copies off. You know on Xerox. You had no Xerox in those days. Xerox must have come out about 1957 and there about. But so much has changed, its the 60's. We didn't have - there was some computers but not the way they have today - God almighty - everything is computer.

38. AK: : In 1956 you were traveling if I remember. Is that when you had the campaign in Moose Jaw?

39. JK: : Yeah, 1956 I had the campaign in Moose Jaw and then at the time of the election in 1956 I was up in Nashua [spell?], New Hampshire running another one. I remember up there a guy Foster Fericulo was running for Governor and he run

40. AK: :He was Democrat?

41. JK: He was a Democrat. And name - Irish Politician 0- began wit a c [Curley]-They called him the Irish Thrush or something like that. From Boston. The Guy who went to jail

42. AK: Sort of the kingmaker?

43. JK: Yeah right and he was also the governor. And he was also the Mayor of Boston at one time and he was in the House of Representatives. At any rate, he was talking and he was a very suave individual. He said Foster Foriculo comes from a wonderful family. His father is an eminent surgeon, and his mother - who is Irish - and she is beautiful [She is like a little girl tittering away because she is called beautiful. - And she was a very handsome woman]. I want you to know that she is Irish and beautiful. [chuckle]

44. AK: So this way he was supporting him.

45. JK: Yeah and Foriculo seemed to have quite a future ahead of him.. but he sort of died on the wayside. All of a sudden the Kennedy's took over in Massachusetts in 1960 and that was it.

46. AK: Was Foriculo from New Hampshire or Massachusetts. Or you were in New Hampshire.

47. J.K. I was in New Hampshire looking at TV.

48. JK: James Michael Curley - He was the Politician [referred to above as kingmaker][

49. AK: .What did the people like your self, who were a little involved in campaigns think?. Uncle Smitty who was getting more involved. Did they sense a big change was happening at this time? All of you, How old would you have been then thirty something?

50. JK: I was in my thirties

51. AK you had been through the war, Uncle Smitty the same thing. You had hoped Stevenson would get in . now you had lived through Eisenhower.

52. JK: Don't forget we had no TV. When we were growing up. The first instance of radio on the general scope would be about 1924. And I would think that possibly 1948 was probably the first time that we had an election. On TV. I remember your mother, it was her first vote. She loved Harry Truman. And so did Mrs. Hogan who lived next door to us. And they were looking at TV. And I remember , I went to bed early I thought that Dewey was definitely in. And your mother come back about four O/clock in the morning and she says Truman's been reelected [laughter]. It was a shock.

53. AK: She woke you up to tell you.

54. JK: Yeah, She was so happy.

55. AK: Were you happy too?

56. JK: No I voted for Dewey. [chuckle]

57. AK: Oh - Dewey was Catholic wasn't he? - or Governor?

58. JK: No, he was a fine talking voice , baritone and deep and he had been governor of NY and he had a fine record as the District Attorney for Manhattan. But he had no personality. Teddy's Roosevelt's daughter, Alice Roosevelt Longworth said he reminded her of the little man on the wedding cake. [laughter] That was her description of him.

59. AK: But you still thought he would make a better.

60. J.K: I thought he was a real good administrator. I thought he would make a good president. And I guess I was a little bit weary after 16 years of the democrats being in.

61. AK: So this was the first time you switched parties? To vote for Dewey?

62. JK: Yeah, but then I went right back. I voted for Stevenson [Dem 1952] , Stevenson [Dem 1956], Kennedy [Dem 1960], Johnson [Dem 1964], Of course I voted for Humphery [Dem 1968] in 1968 and I even voted for Mc Govern [Dem 1972] who I was not too keen about. But I couldn't stand Nixon [Rep 1972]. I just couldn't stand that guy. He was too much.

63. AK: But you had at least voted once Republican before you started to work for Rockefeller [Republican-Liberal/Moderate] in the 1964 primaries [Republican ] Against Goldwater -[Republican-Conservative], What process went on. How did you get involved.

64. JK: Well I was not too keen on Johnson. He got the job automatically. When Kennedy was killed. And I thought Nelson [Rockefeller] - he was a very liberal guy and he had a good record. I just liked him. I thought he would be a good president.

65. AK: And the Education thing, you told me about he had done a lot for education.. Note [ For background on Nelson Rockefeller see http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,65631+1,00.html]

66. JK: Yeah and he went contrary to the concepts of the leading republicans. That is why he never got the nomination. He tried to get it in 1964, by running in the primaries and he took Oregon. And he went into California with a week to go - he was 12 points high in the pools. But they just got every body against him. The regulars in the party - the conservatives and Barry Goldwater got the nomination.

67. AK: When you first got on his staff. How did that work. How did you get involved.

68. JK: I ran a campaign for a new seminary - no - for a couple of new buildings for the Catholic Church in Arkansas. It was very successful. I think we had a goal of about two million bucks and we raised about five million dollars. Which is an awful lot of money in those days, especially in Arkansas. And Win Rockafeller was a very close friend o Monsignor 'Connel. Who was my moderator on the campaign. When he [Win Rockafeller] heard his brother was going to run, he asked Monsignor if I would be interested in going with him. He thought because of my previous experience as a fund raiser and a campaign director - would be very helpful. So Monsignor got in touch with me and I said sure, if I could work it out with my company.

69. AK: Were you still working in Arkansas at the time?

70. JK: No, This is - I worked in Arkansas in 1962 and this in 1964.

71. AK: Was Win the governor of Arkansas then?

72. JK: Win was the Governor of Arkansas then.. So I said sure but I have to see about getting permission from my company. And they said sure. OK, we'll work it out for you. And I went into Oregon and California with him. And in Oregon, I remember very well. He spoke at a High School and there were two buses from the media and so forth and the staff. And we were heading back towards Portland and it's a little after seven. And Nelson said, I'm hungry. Listen, I tell you what lets stop at the next place along here. I'll go for it I'll pay for it. So we all hop out. We are all glad. Boy, were going to take this millionaire for a few bucks today. [chuckle] So I had some bookwork to do. I'm working on it and the rest of the people have gone in and Rockefeller's Daughter Ann comes in. And she is looking around and I say Hey Ann, What are you looking for? She says, well Daddy told me to come out here and check to make sure the driver has breakfast with us. I say, listen, he was the first guy off the bus. He is probably eating breakfast right now. So we went in together and sure enough the driver was eating breakfast. And every body else including the Governor is on the line waiting to have a breakfast.

73. JK: And I remember Election night there. I was standing next to a guy and I think his name was Merrill Miller as I recall. He was with I think NBC I'm not to sure this was along time ago. In any event, we are standing there and he will go on the air. And he says to me at eight o'clock we [NBC] are declaring Nelson the winner. I said, how could you do that? He says we get the exit polls. And he gets on at 8:01 and says NBC has declared Nelson Rockefeller the winner in the Oregon Primary. Just like that.

74. AK: And the polls didn't close till nine?

75. J.K: No, they closed at eight. But, fraction of a second almost [and they announce the results].

76. JK: I remember another day Bob Price. Who was the director of his Oregon campaign and I were going out to meet some people in eastern part of the state so we hired a plane. And we were delivering some materials for the little towns and we were looking around for a landing place. And the Guy, the pilot, a fella by the name of Cecil Leonard. He doesn't know where it is and so he finally sees a little road down there and he says I think that is it. And we are going in there and we are not too sure, we are going to the right place. And as we are going in Bob says , Gees, I hope Nelson appreciates what we are doing for him today [chuckle]

77. AK: This was just so you could deliver the campaign literature.

78. JK: Yeah just a little town a couple of hundred people. Just so they would know. We went all over.

79. AK: So you would get into little planes and just hire a plane and say take me to the towns around here.

80. JK: Yeah, little towns

81. AK: And once you got it there, who would deliver it to the people itself. Did you actually go out ann..

82. JK: No what we did. Was we left it there. In some cases we - Like we went into Baker and we had the Bishop of Baker for lunch. In a diner. Of course we wanted him to come out for Nelson - well not come out for him - just meet with him. So he could have his picture taken.

83. AK: And so if that were set up, he would come in a small plane the next day?

84. JK: We would set it up so they could come in and all that. And we went to meet with Bishop Howard in Portland. I had it all set up. The Bishop said I would be delighted to met him and just talk to him. I don't say that I would vote for anything. But I just think that he is a politician and he is a Governor, and he is running. And he said, Adlai Stevenson came through when he was running for president [in 1952] and I was delighted to meet with him. So I set it up and then Rockefeller ran behind on his schedule and he couldn't make it.[chuckle]

85. AK: How did you feel about that one?

86. JK: And the same thing, we had to cancel the Bishop of Baker coming in for the meeting. But you know these things. They are just almost on a minute to minute basis. Everything changes, weather, a bad plane connection or something like that. I remember going into San Diego. One morning and we were supposed to have thousands of people. And there were just a couple. Something went wrong somewhere but another night ...

87. AK: Did Rockefeller show up?

88. JK: Yeah, he showed but it was just the corporal's guard. He expected a big group. And

89. AK: Who did the pre work for it?

90. JK: Well it was the guys who were doing it, They fell down. Something went wrong somewhere. But I remember one night - the difference - we were up in Oregon and he ran late by a couple of hours and the people were still there at twelve O'clock at night in Oregon. And I remember out in, I guess it was in Disney Land. Thousands of people.- the advanced men did such a good job. Thousands of people were on the line, just to shake his hand. Amazing. That people were coming out.

91. AK: :That gave him an idea that Oregon , if they were waiting that way, that it looked good that he was doing that well there..

92. JK: Yeah.

93. AK: You mentioned that there were two buses. So this means that they were doing the busses a long time ago. The campaign busses.

94. JK: Oh well, in those things then, they have had buses and trains. Like in 1952 - no 1948, Harry Truman practically did the nation on the back of a train. He talked to thousands of people - thousands.

95. JK: We had a dinner in Los Angeles, a very posh hotel. It was really done up steak and all the timings. And afterwards Nelson was on the line and he was shaking hands with the people. I was staying at the hotel. I walked in and I saw this very beautiful young girl about 20 or 21 years of age and she had her brother there in his wheelchair and they were looking like they were trying to get in. It turned out later, that she came from a very wealthy Mexican family. And the boy had some sort of an illness and he was confined to a wheel chair and they were staying at the hotel they had a suite there. I saw them standing there and I said. "Can I help you out?" So she said to me, She spoke better English than I did .My brother just loves Governor Rockefeller. And he wondered if he could get in and see him. I said you stay here. Just a minute, I'll check it out. There was a little brief stop for a while and I went up to him and said. Nelson there is a kid here from Mexico who just adores you. He is in a wheel chair and he is coming up for a special treatment in Los Angeles by the Doctors. And I wonder if I can bring him in to say hello to you. He says Jack, I'll do better than that. I say, what will you do? He says, I'll stop the line and go out and see the boy. So he stops and says "gonna take just a few minutes, I'll be right back". We go out there and we ask the kid's name. And Nelson spoke perfect Spanish. He asks the kid's name and he says Georgio [Jorge] and he says: "now where do you live Georgio?" and he calls the secretary over. I want you to get Georgio's name and address and I want to send him a picture that is autographed by me. And he told the kid. And the kid was just so elated. And we were in that hotel for a couple of days. And every day I went in there the mother and father and the sister they all greeted me. You would think I was the king [chuckle]

96. AK: Because you were able to bring Nelson Rockefeller over to them.

97. J.K; Yeah, and another time I got him on the Campus to speak at Loyola College, in Los Angeles, the Jesuit College. And we felt this is going to be big. Because he had been divorced you know . And they felt, boy, to get him on a Catholic Campus .they will think it's OK. Well it won't do any harm, it will help. We are all set. We got all of the material out. And I get called in about ten o'clock that morning. And the president of the college tells me that it is canceled. I said why?. We have been invited here by the history Department.. He said "we were afraid, that people get the impression that we were favoring him." I said "this has nothing to do with it. This is the History department. The University isn't inviting him". He says , "well I am sorry". So he called it off. And we had to cancel out. And I checked later on and the guy who was the fund-raiser, he resigned in disgust. Because he said the reason it was canceled many of the financial backers of Loyola, were Barry Goldwater people and they told the President, " If you have this man on the campus, we will cut off your water" Meaning their contributions, and he backed down. And I met a Father Merryfield, back in - a couple of years after, about 1965. Or 1966. He was the new president of the University. And he told me that as a result of the action of the then president, that 50% of the faculty were opposed to him from then on. He just made a mess of everything. Some were for the cancellation and others were diametrically opposed to it. Well any way, the next day we were up in San Francisco. He is speaking to a commonwealth group up there, a club. And he , Rockefeller, called me and said I understand you are terribly upset about what happened at Loyola. I said " I'm more than upset, I could have let those Jesuits have it with everything I have." He said well I want to tell you something, we checked that out thoroughly. We checked your every movement and your every advance and so forth. And you did everything right. We are proud of you. And I want you to know I think you were great. And he put his arms around me and gave me a big hug. Long time ago. What is that about 32 years.

98. AK: .That's good when someone knows. When something like that happens and someone behinds the scenes knows what really happens, trying to make it work.

99. JK: : Yup - So --

100. AK: What was it like leading up to the {convention]. After California [primary] did he know that he didn't stand a chance?

101. JK: It was pretty sure that the Goldwater people had all the votes, but they [Rockefea people] went to California [convention] with hopes that a miracle would happen. You know,

102. AK: Because California was winner take all right?" It wasn't percentage?

103. JK: No I don't mean that I mean when they went to the convention. The convention was then in San Francisco and they were hoping a miracle would happen. In California [primary] he only lost by fifty thousand votes. Went right down to the wire.

104. AK: If he could have got that, that would have took him [through other primary states]

105. JK: If he had gotten California [in the primary], he would have had a shot at the nomination. Because, then other people, in other states might have fallen into line. They figure this guy [Rockefeller] took him [Goldwater] in the biggest state. And it wasn't the biggest state then, New York was the biggest,

106. AK: And Rockefeller would have gotten New York?

107. JK Yeah, and others would have. - It is like the dominos , You win one and they all fall off.

108. AK: But the situation there was then if you won a state in some of those states you got all the convention votes. Is that still true or do some of them split them now?

109. JK: Some do. But I think he would have had a good chance against Johnson. Johnson was not that too well liked. But Barry Goldwater, he was out of this world. He said we should just drop a bomb in the Mens' room [of the Kremlin] in Russia. You know the capital. He would have been drastic.

110. AK: From there do you mind going on to the Javits time?

111. JK: Oh, I had my job to go back to. They asked me to go out and make a coupe f calls out in Wisconsin. And in Illinois. And I went out and made calls in Illinois. It didn't do any good as I say the Goldwater people had the votes and that was it.

112. AK: California was pretty much the turning point?

113. JK: Yeah any one who was on the shelf, was going to go where they thought the votes were. So no, then I did nothing at all. Then in 1968, I got a call from the Javits people and they asked me to go with them. It came out of the Blue.

114. AK: Do you think it was based because they knew you had worked with Rockefeller, [Nelson Aldrich.]

115. JK: Yeah the guys that knew I was with Rockefeller, sure. And Javits had no problem. He ran against Paul O'Dwyer. O'Dwyer was a very Liberal Democrat and he just didn't have a chance. And Javits was very liberal too, He was great speaker and a great politician. Of course, he got beat when he got sick. This guy D'Amato beat him in the primary.

116. AK: I think if Javits had realized what was going to happen - If he would have accepted that he couldn't beat. D'Amato he should have stepped out. Because he ended up with worse that he wanted. Who was running against him Holtsman?

117. J.K> Holtsman, I didn't have much faith in her frankly, She was the democratic nominee. And I didn't care for her at all. But this guy, as far as I'm concerned , Al D'Amato [Republican Senator Alfonse D'Amato ]was also a ---he was a foul ball. He came from the Nassau organization out here. They tax the people they get jobs for and all that sort of stuff. And they have proven today they are falling apart. You know they had this, they couldn't even -- In this past primary, McCain took more votes in Nassau than Bush. And Bush had the organization to back him. But people are disgusted with them. I mean why should a wealthy rich county, like Nassau, be a hundred million dollars in debt. That's ridiculous. They thought they could spend the money and didn't have to worry. But they are finding out now.

118. AK: If you don't mind I want to ask you a little more about the Javits campaign. What type of things you did with him.

119. JK: I did everything with him: I set up meetings; I took care of supplies; I hired people. I just did about everything on the campaign that could be done. I got him set up to go around the state. He met with Bishop Schene [TV Bishop] and I set that up in Rochester. They were good friends I think . They had worked on various projects I think over the years.

120. AK: Did people actually travel with him. Did he do a bus thing?

121. JK: Yeah we went by bus, Sure, Sure. Yeah, as a matter of fact. One day I had charge o the bus tour. It was on a Saturday. And we went to Kew Gardens and Jamaica, all around Queens. I was getting - and you had to push the people on the bus - you had a schedule.to adhere to. So, I pushed this last guy in. And he sat down and we moved along and I sat next to him, I said are you from the New York ?Times? he says "No, I'm a plainclothes man from the New York City Police Department, I'm the guard for the Senator" Oh, I say, do you know my brother? And he says who is your brother. Sergeant Tom Keefe on the Mounted patrol. He was a young guy, about 30 years of age. And he said "Is he your brother?" I said yeah. And he says " If we had a thousand guys like him this would be the greatest, safest city in the world. I said what a cop. And the next day he meets me and there are a lot of people around and he says Boy O Boy. you ought to meet Jack's brother, Tom, What a cop.! And I said to Tom, he knew him, what's his name. I guess he is just some kid, I guess I helped out once. [laughter] But I remember [polite interrupt by Wanda D Keefe]

122. AK: I just wanted to continue a little bit about the day to day things on the Javits. What you said in passing about the Bus. And then setting up these different things. I think it is interesting for people to know what it really takes to run a campaign. For you it was sort of like you did this and that. You are basically saying the Senator would ride with you on the bus.? And then he would talk to different people was he pretty open about the pressure he was under. Or how did his speeches get done?

123. JK: Towards the end, you would see if he was getting tired and we would try to save his energy . A thing they are talking about a great deal today the NRA [National Rifle Association]., And I remember he went to a meeting with them and he talked and he was opposed to their stand even back then.

124. AK: But he got up there and he told them why?

125. JK: You bet, He was a very intelligent guy and he had lots of Moxie. He would speak his speech ,he would let people know.

126. AK: So you were on two of his campaigns or just one of them?

127. JK: Just one of them, 1968

128. AK: Was the his first one or his second one

129. JK: That might have even been his third one, though I know it was not the first. He was well established in the congressional community.

130. AK: So t was different to be on his campaign than to be on Rockefeller's? You had the edge on that [Javits reelection] campaign.

131. JK: Yes there was no question about it. They generally admitted that before the campaign started , he was going to clobber O'Dwyer. And he did clobber him good.

132. AK: Was O'Dwyer city council president at one time.

133. JK: He was something like that. And of course he was very active - his brother had been mayor of New York Bill O'Dwyer. And they were very liberal and they came from Ireland. Although my father worked with Bill O'Dwyer when he was a Rookie. And he always said he was a nice kid. Avery nice guy.

134. AK: Oh they were both cops together?

135. JK: Yeah, my father was a little bit older than him. He [B.O'Dwyer] went on to become the mayor, involved in a little scandal and I think he resigned and he got the job as the Ambassador to Mexico. [chuckle] They always take care of their own..

136. AK: Javits seemed to reach out to a number of different communities well.

137. JK: Oh yeah, He was a smart guy. Real smart.. I remember setting him up to speak down around lower Broadway around Fourth Street. And he would go all over the city. We would go up through Manhattan. And Harlem, speak in Harlem. He was favorite of the black people too, they liked him.

138. AK: We arranged something at the UN when Nelson Rockefeller passed away, since you know the Rockefellers donated the grounds. And so we invited him [Javits] and Lindsey to speak and Javits showed up. I don't know if I mentioned to him at he time , I was the contact. He gave a talk.

139. JK: He was a very good speaker. He was quite an asset to the state, to the United States Senate. He was always in the minority, but people listened to him.

140. AK: Did you have to represent his views to different communities or just setting up?

141. JK: Just setting up, I spoke for him at a couple of meetings, where I presented his views. One was a meeting of some sort of a council down in - a local setup - a community affair. In Greenwich Village. And then I also spoke for him in Queens Village. At meetings of various societies and so forth. And then I would present his views. But when you are setting up for a meeting you just want to make sure of arrangements - he can expound his views.